Thank you for helping me launch into the technological age!
A commendable job to all of you for completing Oedipus Rex so quickly.
Now that you have finished the text, you may want to consider the following questions. Feel free to comment or add your own points to ponder:
1. Compare and contrast Creon & Oedipus. What are their essential character traits? What textual evidence do you have to support this?
2. Does Sophocles believe in prophecy and fate?
3. What is Oedipus's fundamental hamartia?
4. What did you think of his final moments with his daughters / sisters?
44 comments:
Oedipus was an interesting book
Sophocles does believe in fate and prophecy. The whole reason Oepidus was abandoned is because his mother feared the prophecy of Oepidus killing her husband and marrying her. I thought you were supposed to answer a question from the home page if your wondering why I wrote this. This book was a lot more interesting then the book we previously read.
Yeah noreen, you know, the killing of the father, the marrying of the mother. It's all good. Hehe, flying sheep. "Sex, incest, death, dismemberment... a typical day in English 9 Honors." (discussing Oedipus's fateful prophecy) Luke: "They should out that in a fortune cookie." You know, the whole frankenstein's moster galateau fiasco came from a reverse/homosexual oedipal complex
mallory how about you let the ninth graders post here. Lord of the flies is the best book ... :)
Neil: You are doing exactly what you are supposed to do; the visiting English 9H Alumni are having fun making general observations.
You make a very valid point... don't run the risk of placing all of the blame on Jocasta, though -- her husband had something to do with this too!!!
To all bloggers: please ID youself by your first name at least so I know who is participating!
Sophocles does believe in fate because that is one of the main central themes of the drama. If Oedipus just let his fate be how it was supposed to, he would have not been punished. Sophocles showed that one cannot change their fate as it is one's destiny.
Oedipus's fundamental hamartia is arrogance and hubris. Despite the fact that Tiresias tells Oedipus about his predetermined fate, Oedipus is ignorant and denies the truth about his actions.
Sophocles believed in prophecy and fate. Throughout the story of Oedipus, the themes of prophecy and fate are demonstrated. Oedipus' parents abandoned him, and he ran away from home because of prophecies that they tried to escape. Oedipus ended up killing Laius and marrying Jocasta because it was his fate. After these prophecies came true, Oedipus felt horrible so he blinded himself. Sophocles knew that people could not escape their fates no matter what they tried to do.
I agree with Ambika, that Oedipus's fundamental hamartia is arrogance and hubris.If Oedipus had accepted his fate when Tiresias tried to warn him, things might have turned out a little differently.
I agree with each of your comments regarding Oedipus, hubris, and fate...is there any chance that Laius and Jocasta deserve a little of the blame?
Just to let you all know, the class website has been updated with review materials for the Oedipus exam.
I think that both Laius and Jocasta are to blame. This is because Laius wanted to leave Oedipus on the side of Mt. Cithaeron and he made sure of this by piercing spikes through Oedipus's ankles. Jocasta went along with this. She was afraid of the prophecy that said that Oedipus was destined to kill his father and marry his mother. So, Laius and Jocasta contribute to Oedipus's ignorance, which eventually leads to his downfall. On the other hand, it is hard to say who's to blame for Oedipus's downfall because fate cannot be avoided. If fate had already determined that Oedipus was going to end up killing his father and marrying his mother, then that is what was going to happen, regardless of Oedipus's parents' actions.
Laius and Jocasta are the most to blame in my opinion because if Laius and Jocasta had kept their child and accepted their fate, Oedipus' fate might have been different. For instance, the only reason why Oedipus ran away in the first place is because he didn't want to kill his mother and his father so if Laius and Jocasta just accepted that fact that their son would kill Laius and marry Jocasta, then maybe Oedipus would have ran away from them trying to aviod his fate.
I think that Lauis and Jocasta are to blame, but not entirely. Honestly, I do not think that anyone is to blame except maybe The Fates for determining this for Oedipus. If Lauis and Jocasta hadn't left their baby on the side of the mountain, things wouldn't have turned out much differently. Oedipus still ended up killing his father and marrying his mother. If Polybus and Merope had told him the truth, Oedipus might have been more careful about everything and stayed in Thebes.
Sophocles does belive in fate and prophecy.If he didn't the outcome of the play would be compleatly different. If oedipus recived a different phrophacy he would have never been sent away by his parents as a baby and would have never killed his father and married his mother. He would have grew up differently and Apollo might have never put a plaugue on the town and the next book would be different because Oedipus would have never been banished.
I agree with Maureen. If Sophocles didnt beleive in fate and prophecy the whole book would have been completely differant. Fate is the main aspect that made Oedipus leave home and the main aspect that brought Oedipus to Corinth in the first place. At the same time fate is the essential factor that made Oedipus go to Thebes. He killed his father and married his mother all due to fate and prophecy. Without the theme of fate and prophecy many events would have been differant and the book as a whole would have been, as well.
Sophocles does believe in prophecy, but Oedipus (Odypus) does not. His fate was fortold from the start. He was foolish to try and escape it. The one problem with most stories involving prophecy is that the very thing you do to try and escape your fate is the thing that brings it about. Although Jocasta could have been smart and realized that she was marrying someone close to the age of her son (or the age he would have been). Not that she can defend herself at the moment. The fates must have some twisted sense of humor for thinking this one up. Additionally isn't the fate of each person their fault? So shouldn't they be punished for making people do bad things?
I think the clock for the blog is messed i left the last one at about 4:45
Sophocles believes in fate and prophecy because he purposly includes dramatic irony to prove a point to the audience; you can never avoid your fate. I think Oedipus also beleives in fate because he ran away from his foster parents in order to avoid his sinister fate. If he did not beleive this was true then he would not of cared what his fate said and not run away from his foster parents.
I agree with Ambika. Oedipus has a lot of hubris and that makes him ignorant to the facts everyone is telling him about the killing of Laius. Oedipus really wants to find out who killed the former king but he had to much pride to actually start thinking it could have been him. oedipus has a lot of self confidence but that isn't necessarily a good thing. Oedipus was so quick to call Creon a traitor. Oedipus would try and block out and get rid of any thing that might put him off the throne.
I agree with Shane and disagree with joe about Oedipus beliving in fate. As shane said if Oedipus didn't he would't have tried to avoid his fate be running away from Corinth to Thebes. I am also though thinking that he must have not belived in fate because if he did he should have relized earlier on that he was the killer of Laius, of couse Oedipus has shown many signs of stupidity through out the play and a lot of irony that makes this story enjoyable for viewers.
I agree with Zoe. Sophocles believes in fate because it is one of the main themes in Oedipus the King. Oedipus was punished because he tried to avoid his fate and that goes against what the gods believe in. Fate cannot be changed; if you try to change fate u will get punished and eventually the fate will still become true. Jocasta also tried to change the fate of her son by trying to get him killed; either way fate cannot be changed and Sophocles agrees.
i agree with what neil is saying because in the story his parents beleived in the prophecy and left there son to die on the mountain side.
I agree with Neil and Zoe. Sophocles does believe in fate and prophecy. He probably wrote about Oedipus just to prove that prophecy and fate are real.
I agree with Shannon but I don't think that when writting this story Sophocles was thinking that he will write about oedipus just to make a point. I think he started writting the play for the audience, and he used irony and his own personal belifes to make the story more intresting. He thought about how he believes in fate and prophecy and thought this could make a great storyline for Oedipus.
Sophocles showed that he believed in fate and prophecy. I've noticed that most of us are saying that Oedipus has tried to run away from his fate when he ran away from Polybus and Merope. But other people tried to avoid their fate as well. For example, Lauis also tried to run away from his fate by putting his baby son on a hill with spiked ankles to die. If he really didn't want to be killed by his son and have his son marry his wife, then he shouldn't have been irresponsible and gotten drunk with Jocasta, then Oedipus would have never been born. But, Lauis tried to avoid his fate. Also, he could have just killed the kid and hoped to the god's that he didn't have another. Sophocles showed that he believed that fate and prophecy do exist through Oedipus, the protagonist, and even Lauis.
I agree with Zoe. Sophocles does believe in fate and prophecy because fate and propehecy are definately one of the central themes of the book. I also agree with Lauren. Sophocles shows his belief in fate in other characters besides Oedipus.
I agree with alex and lauren that Sophocles is not just showing his belief though oedipus. He is also showing how he belives in fate and prophecy through Laius. They both ran from their fate and it didn't get them any where why could have asked Apollo for help but instead tried to get rid of the problem. Laius got rid of the baby and Oedipus got him self gon from the town where his (Not real) father is and mother.
I agree with Zoe. Sophocles does believe in fate. He made
Oedipus suffer even after he tried avoiding the prophet. Even
when Oedipus hears of the prophecy again, he chooses not to
believe it. Sophocles wants this to happen because he probably
believes you can't escape what is destined to happen.
i agree with vickie because Sophocles used some of the values from the greek cultures that say that you can't run away from what is destined to happen. Also the idea of Lauis and Oedipus disrespecting the gods comes into play because that is also a greek value that Sopocles believed in.
Oedipus' fundamental hamartia is his exessive pride or hubris. He also shows disrespect for the gods. Through his flaws, his downfall occured. If Oedipus had went to the gods for help, his downfall probably would have been differant. He should have seeked help from the gods, instead of going with his own thoughts.
I agree with Regina. Oedipus' fundamental hamartia is his excessive pride, stubborness, and disrespect for the gods. If Oedipus just listened to the people around him, he would have known many more things about himself, like that Tiresias' prophecy for him was true. Oedipus should have trusted the gods to be right instead of thinking he could escape his fate by running away.
I agree with Lauren. Lauren said the idea of Laius and oedipus disrespecting the godsa comes into play because of Greek values and belifes. They belived in honesty, repect, fate, prophecy, and the truth.
I agree with Regina that Oedipus's fundemental hamartia is his pride and hubris, and through all of his errors a downfall did occur. There might have had a different outcome at the end though if he would have just asked Apollo for help.
I agree with you regina and allison..basically Oedipus had way to much pride. If he listened to the gods and the people around him, (tiresias, chorus, drunk guy at party) then he probably wouldn't have ran away from polybus and Merope, and he also wouldn't have killed Laius and married Jocasta. There were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many clues to help Oedipus realize that Jocasta is really his mom but all he cared about was himself and didn't realize any of it
I compleatly agree with lauren how Oedipus had so many clues in front of his face and he is just a huge idiot for not relizing that maybe he had something to do with the whole plague. I kinda though disagree with him only caring about hiself because in the beggining of the play oedipus was asking the priest what was wrong and why there is a plague and he showed signs that he reallly cared about his town.
I agree with Maureen. Oedipus is so oblivious of the truth that is right in front of him. This is because of his arrogance.
I agree with Allison. Oedipus does try to escape his fate. By doing so, he angers the gods. His ignorance and hubris makes it hard for him to accept the truth about his past actions. This relates to the theme of blindness. Tiresias is physically blind, but has a good incite to the truth and human nature. Oedipus, unlike Tiresias, isn't physically blind (yet...), but is unaware of the truth and his surroundings.
I agree with Regina. Sophocles does believe in fate because Oedipus is unable to escape the prophecy of killing his father and marrying his mother. I think that Sophocles's central message to readers is that no man can escape his/her destiny and that people shouldn't be conceited because it often clouds their outlook on life, and their acceptance of the truth. This makes a person vulnerable, which can lead to their downfall.
I compleatly agree with amibika when she said that Tiresias is physically blind, but can see the truth and human nature. Oedipus is the opposite of Tiresias because je is not physically blind but he is unaware of the truth and everything around him. This includes all the facts right in front of his face that he is to ignorant to see.
I agree with Maureen and Ambika. Though Tiresias may not be able to physically see he is able to see towards the future. Oedipus on the other hand is able to see, but is ignorant to see the future. The clues are so obvious but he doesnt want to beleive them. If he was accepting of the truth when it first came to him, the story probably wouldn't have ended up like the way it did.
I agree with Maureen. The Greek value of honoring the gods is demonstrated. I think that Oedipus tries to challenge the gods by attempting to escape his destiny.
Jocasta & Oedipus are foolish in that they had grasped the truth at too late a time, but the "drive" of humans are to blame too. But even if they had discovered the truth as soon as there were a sufficient number of clues, they would still not have been able to do anything about it.
Ooyah(-::-)
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