"When he was nearly thirteen, my brother Jem got his arm badly broken at the elbow [...] When enough years had gone by to enable us to look back on them, we sometimes discussed the events leading to his accident. I maintain that the Ewells started it all, but Jem, who was four years my senior, said it started long before that. He said it began the summer Dill came to us, when Dill first gave us the idea of making Boo Radley come out." (Lee 3)
Who is correct? Would the course of events have remained the same if Dill had not entered the picture? What do you think? Continue the debate from class. Special recognition to the articulate arguments raised by Kevin F., Zoe, Sam, and Craig. Respond to each other but, as always, stay respectful!
Don't forget to leave your name so you can receive credit for participation!
43 comments:
Okay this is coming from my class when Craig was explaining why Dill is the reason why he broke his arm but Kevin was totally right because Dill didn't attack Jem, Mr Ewell did. Obviously things happened because of Dill but not necessarily leading to the accident. Even if the children didn't go to the trial Bob Ewell would still want to hurt them to get back Atticus. Dill had nothing to do with Jem breaking his arm.
I agree with Lauren and I also agree with Kevin from class. If Dill wasn't even in the story Mr. Ewell would have attacked the children. Also, if the children hadn't gone to the courtroom they would still been attacked because they would take their father's side. The attack has nothing to do with the children personally or their physical actions. If this were the case, Dill might have been able to interfere however the ways in which Dill "changes" the children is not at all related to Mr. Ewell's actions.
I agree with lauren that Dill had nothing to do with Mr. Ewell attacking Jem. Dill had no influence on Jem and Scout going to the court, as they made the decision together to go. Also they had no choice to sit in the colored balcony at the courtroom, Reverend Skyes almost forced them to. Jem and Scout also had no choice in going to church with Calphurnia which was one of the arguements for Dill causing Jem's broken arm.
Shane's right- Dill didn't make them sit witht the colored people, they choose to because Calphurnia was there and they actully knew her. Also, Francesca is right because Mr Ewell would have still attacked the children because they would have took their fathers side no matter what; even if they didn't believe in what Atticus was doing, they still would have took his side because he is their father and one of the lessons of the novel is they stuck by their fathers side even though no one else in the town did.
you guys are right i guesse but the fact that Mr.ewell hurt them is not where it all started. We said this in class..but if dill didnt make them more adventurous they wouldnt have went the back way.If they didnt go the back way they would've went the main way there could of been a person walking on the street so he wouldnt attack them. Even if Mr. Ewll did attack them anyway because he was drunk the people walking on the street would have stopped it before anything would happen, causing jem not to have a broken arm.
Not to be a direct tarfet or anything but kevin is so wrong. He finallty got our point that should even the argument about that it was Dill who made them go that way because they were not afraid of Boo any more but, he thinks that Ewell still would have attacked them if they went the other way which is crazy. The other way had street lights and all the naighbors were in their homes. The two kids as soon as they heard something could have turend around screamed and ran the instant they screamed, many many doors would have opend and Bob Ewell would have been cought. He is a grown man and would have never been so stupid as to attack the kids in the light because he would be caught even if he was drunk or whatever, if someone just looked out their window they would have seen them. Earlier in the book someone just knocked hard on the porsh and peoples doors opended as Miss Arney said in class. The whole way the kids could have looked back and would have seen them and if you were to try and kill someoneone would u even take the chance to do it when their are people in their homes probobly not yet asleep and in the light because thta it so stupid.
All very valid points! We seem to be in a logic-loop right now: go to the text and find other evidence to back up your claim! BTW "blogging" abbreviations are ok (as long as I can "translate" them; try to watch the spelling, though on other words. Have a great weekend, guys!
Although Dill didn't break Jem's arm himself, he did cause the time, location, and outcome of the attack. Dill caused the way the way Jem and Scout went home, because he got them to be unafraid and become used to Boo's presence. Normally Scout and Jem wouldn't have walked home that way if it weren't for Dill. If the children hadn't walked home that way Bob Ewell might not have had the oppurtunity to attack the children.
Although Dill didn't physically break Jem's arm he caused all the events leading up to it and caused them to turn out the way that they did.
Dill may have influenced Scout and Jem to do things, but the cause of Jem's broken arm is Mr. Ewell. Atticus would have been on the court case, and Mr. Ewell still would have found a way to get revenge on Atticus. Mr. Ewell knows the best way to get revenge, is on Atticus's children, so he would have found a way to hurt them. No matter what route Jem and Scout went, Mr. Ewell still would have followed them and hurt them. Jem's arm would have become broken either way; Dill did not have a lot to do with Mr. Ewell breaking Jem's arm.
okay well no offence guys but dill has no incluence whatso ever because mr ewell still would have wanted to hurt the chilren and if didn't happen that specific night it still would have happened. also, mr ewell maybe would have not done his attack in that way but he WOULD find a way to hurt the children to hurt atticus. dill had nothing to do with jem's broken arm
From reviewing the novel and from our class discussion, I strongly believe that Dill has a huge impact on characters and the events that occur. When coming home Scout and Jem get attacked by Bob Ewell. This is mainly because of Dill's influence on the children. By making them more curious about Boo Radley's apperance, he makes them courageous, which causes them take a different route home. This makes a difference in the novel because this is when Jem injures his arm. If Dill wasn't included in the novel, readers may assume that Bob Ewell would eventually hurt the children. In my opinion, I think that Dill was included in the novel so that the chain of events leading up to the reason why Jem injures his arm, would have a more solid reason; in this case, Dill's influence on the children.
I am aware of the fact that Dill opened up Scout and Jem's eyes to the real world, outside of Maycomb. I agree with Zoe and Ambika because if it wasn't for Dill's impact on Scout and Jem, they would have not taken the route that they did. However, it was not Dill who caused Jem and Scout to be attacked. Although the Ewell's won the trial, Bob Ewell was not happy with the outcome of the trial. I also agree with Lauren because now Bob Ewell wants to take his angriness from the trial out on Jem and Scout to hurt Attticus. Like Lauren said, the attack could have happened any night.
Lindsey it was Dill who caused them to be attacked because Dill made them less afraid of Boo Radley so they took the route that went past his house where there are no streetlights and where all the naighbors are not. If Ewell attacked them the other way they could have looked back the whole time and saw him and started screaming and running. As soon as they screamed many doors would have opend in a secound and Ewell would have been cought before he attacked them. Im sure Ewell would be smart enough even if drunk to not kill them in the light or if they screamed and he saw people's doors quickly open before he reached them.
Maureen your right but Boo Radley had NOTHING do to with the attack what so ever. Even if Boo Radley didn't save Jem and Scout, Jem's arm would still be broken. Your exact words were "Dill who caused them to be attacked because Dill made them less afraid of Boo Radley", and thats right but did Boo attack the children? If you guys seriously think about it why did Mr. Ewell want to attack the children. Was it because that that night they went through the woods? No it wasn't, it was because their Atticus's children and Mr. Ewell wanted to do something to hurt Atticus because of the trial. Think about it, if Dill never came to Maycomb, would Atticus have still have defended Tom Robinson? Yes he would have. And what did Dill have to do with the trial. NOTHING. The trial would have still resulted the same way, i mean its not like Dill was a lawyer or Mr. Ewells daughter, he was just a friend. Back to what i said in a previous comment, Mr. Ewell would have found a way to hurt the children even if it didn't happen that very night.
dammnnnn lauren.
she makes a really strong argument and i totally agree with it.
no matter how you look at it- DILL WAS NOT WITH THE KIDS WHEN THEY DECIDED TO TAKE THAT WAY HOME. they made the decision themselves and regardless of the fact that dill makes them "more adventurous"
they're kids! its dark and theyre tired and theyre going to take the shorter way home. Nor was dill the one who told Atticus to defend Tom Robinson- the reason this attack happened in the first place. Mr. Ewell didnt attack them because they were cutting through boo radleys yard, he attacked them because they are Atticus' children. The streetlight argument makes sense, but if it hadnt happened that night on the way home from the show, it would have happened another night, another way. Atticus would still have angst from the town and it would still get taken out on his children one way or another.
I agree with Lauren. Even though Dill made Scout and Jem more comfortable with Boo, which led them to go through the dark path that night, Mr. Ewell still started everything. Either way, he wanted to hurt Atticus for humiliating him by hurting his children. If not that night, he still would have found another way to attack them if he really wanted to. It didn't have to happen that night.
I agree with Vickie and Lauren. Even though Dill affected the way the kids thought about Boo Radley, Mr. Ewell would have still been the way he was. Even if the kids hadn't taken the dark path where they were attacked, Mr. Ewell would still have been wanting to hurt them. His whole point of the attack was to hurt Atticus. Even if they hadn't taken the dark path, Mr. Ewell could have still hurt them another time. Dill was influential on the kids, but not neccesarilly towards the trial overall. Atticus would have still defended Tom even if Dill wasnt there and Mr. Ewell still could have found another way to hurt the children.
Talk about a face off in class!!! Anyhoo, I totally agree with the people who think that Dill had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the breaking of Jem's arm. Dill just happened to appear in Maycomb around the same time that Tom Robinson was accused of rape. It's not like Dill wrote to Bob Ewell saying, "Ok, I'm coming to Maycomb, so I want you to accused Tom of rape, and cause turmoil in the town. Oh, yeah, and try and pick a fight with the Finches." Pertaining to the whole dispute about how Dill explained all the things that happened in the outside world to Jem and Scout...I am with Joe all the way in saying that Dill made up HALF of what he was even saying. He lyed about a ton of stuff, and had Jem and Scout all worked up for nothing.
I disagree. I think that Boo and Dill both had an an influence on the attack. Dill caused Jem and Scout's curiousity about Boo to sprout and become less afraid of him which caused them to go a different route. If Dill wasn't there to ask about Boo and make them curious about him , they would have went their normal route and wouldn't have been attacked by Bob Ewell.
Well Kevin said in class that Mr. Ewell was a grown man so he would catch two kids but that's not right because first of all Mr. Ewell was drunk and he would have to be careful that he wouldn't be goin so fast so he wouldn't trip on something and stab himself. The street lights were on so the kids would have seen him and ran if he was following them. And he wouldn't be able to catch up to them he would have eventually given up and went home. So Jem would not have broken his arm at the end of the book.
Also, this is adding to my last comment, if Boo didn't come out and save them then Jem wouldn't have a broken arm he would definitely be more hurt or even dead. Boo wouldn't have come out and prevented Jem from getting more hurt if Jem , Scout and Dill didn't become friendly with him. Therefore, Boo coming out to save Jem helped him from getting a worse injury then just a broken arm.
I feel that Dill had an influence on the children and that Jem's broken arm started from Dill and not from Bob Ewell. Had Dill not come and befriend the two then Scout would never have sat in with Aunt Alexandra and the women's club. The Women's Club organized the play and because of Dill's persuasion, along with Atticus's, Scout sat in with the club and was asked by Aunt Alexandra to play a role in the play. Had they not gone to the play they wouldn't have been attacked by Bob Ewell that night and Jem wouldn't have his arm broken. Therefore, Dill's influence was the cause of the injury at the end of the book
The question isn't what affected the surronding circumstances it is what was the cause of breaking Dill's arm. No matter what it come down to Mr. Ewell could of done it numerous ways. Breaking someone's arm does not take a long time therefore if Mr. Ewell wanted to carry out these attacks he could of done it anywhere.
If they had never met Dill, they would have never went to the Radley house. Before they met Dill, they were afraid to go near the Radley house. They always took a route to school that avoided the Radley house. Dill gave them the courage to go to the Radley house. Because they weren't afraid anymore, they walked to school by passing the Radley house. On the night of the pagent, they took the route near the Radley house. Because there was a broken street light near the house, it made it easier for Mr. Ewell to attack them. The other route had a street light, so Mr. Ewell wouldn't have attacked them if they would've been near the street light, for there would have been witnesses. So because of Dill, Jem broke his arm.
no offense to everyone on the Bob Ewell side but you guys have just been repeating yourselves over and over again.
And you guys are right that Ewell still would have looked for a way to have hurt the children and that he did break Jem's arm. BUT in the long run of events Dill caused Jem's arm to break at the time and location that it did. Boo also did have a strong impact on the breaking of Jem's arm, because without Boo, Jem's arm wouldn't be broken. Jem would be dead.
Um.....Will the Kevins, Georges, and any other popular named people please provide last initials? Thanks!
jaime-you're right about Dill and how he made them less affraid of the route but still the question was who was the root of Jem's broken arm. What you said about if Boo didn't come out Jem's arm would be broken, and he would be even more hurt. You are right but his arm still would be broken! Shannon- Mr. Ewell would have broken Jem's arm or atleast attacked them, eventully. And Zoe, yeah we are repeating ourselves but only because its true. If it wasn't for Boo Jem would be dead but his arm would be broken. Mr. Ewell went after the kids, Dill didn't. Dill didn't make Mr. Ewell go after them. Seriously if Dill wasn't in the story, how do you think the book would end? (For al the people who think Dill is the reason Jem got his arm broken)
I agree with Jaime. I believe that both Dill and Boo had an affect on Jem breaking his arm. Dill made Jem and Scout adventerous and interested in Boo Radley;if it weren't for Dill then Boo probably wouldn't have known that Jem and Scout even existed. Therefore, Boo would not have come out and saved him. In class a lot of people said how Boo would have came out to save the children because he was caring, regardless if he knew them or not. I strongly disagree with that because even after all that Boo went through with Jem aand Scout, at the end of the book Scout states how she never even saw Boo ever again. Also, many people said that since Jem and Scout went to the trial Bob Ewell saw them as a target. Dill was the one that begged Jem and Scout to go the trial in the first place. Therefore, the events leading up to Jem breaking his arm were Dill's fault.
I think that Dill is to blame for the breaking of Jem's arm. Before Dill showed up Jem and Scout always listened to the rules, stayed inside the boundries, and rarely took part in what was going on in the town. After Dill showed up Jem and Scout began to fear Boo Radley less and less, and started to sneak around Atticus. I am sure Bob Ewell would have seaked his revenge on the Finches but atleast Jem and Scout would have been at home protected by Atticus, or out in the main streets where someone could have helped them. The only reason they took the shortcut was because Dill made them realize that Boo wouldnt hurt them and they were not scared of him anymore.
Jem and Scout ARE fearful of the Radley house until they meet Dill. I disagree with the people who say that Dill didn't have anything to do with Jem's broken arm. Dill made the children more curious and less afraid.
I agree with Ambika , Dill had a big part in the broken arm. Also going back to what Lauren said , yes this question is about what led to the broken arm , therefore they wouldn't have had a broken arm if Dill hadn't made them less afraid and go to a different route! So if Dill wasn't there to give them that security of going on the different road then he wouldn't have had a broken arm because they would have went a different way. They would have went the dark road through the backyards where Bob Ewell , being drunk, wouldn't have been able to follow them and attack them. Regardless of who actually broke his arm, the root leads back to Dill and him making them choose the different route where Bob Ewell was capable of breaking Jem's arm.
I was more on the side with Bob Ewell, but after actually seeing exactly what happened in the book, the side with Dill has the better argument. It is true that Dill was not there when when Bob Ewell attacked Jem, but that is not what Jem tells Scout. They are not discussing the exact incident, but they are discussing "THE EVENTS LEADING TO HIS ACCIDENT" (straight from the book). So like Zoe said, IN THE LONG RUN OF EVENTS!!!!!!!!!!, Dill and his interest in Boo Radley had more of an infuence on Jem's broken arm than Bob Ewell did(even though Ewell was the one who broke the arm). From the start of the summer that Dill came to Maycomb, he expressed interest in making Boo Radley come out. He eventually sparked Jem and Scout's interest, and got them involved in the tricks to try to make Boo come out. Jem and Scout learned a lot through Dill; He opened their eyes up to what the world really was. The tricks that they played on Boo made Jem and Scout more confident with themselves and less fearful of Boo. I agree with Maureen. The night after the play, Jem and Scout could have taken the road, but they didn't because they became less troubled and fearful of how Boo Radley would react through Dill. So they took the route in the darker area, closer to Boo's house.
This is adding to my other comment.....Lauren, Boo did have a lot to do with the incident because think of how Jem would be without Boo coming to save him and killing Ewell!!!!
I agree with Jaime. Dill caused Jem and Scout to look past what other people in Maycomb county are saying and learn the true personality of people. Without Dill, Jem and Scout would never have played the childhood games they played. Jem and Scout learned that Boo was not scary.Without Dill, Jem and Scout would have had different childhoods.
Lindsey you are right but Dill didn't break Jem's arm and, Bob Ewell did. A lot of people have been saying did "if Dill wasn't in the book then it wouldn't have changed it" and thats true the MAIN events wouldn't change but there would be the slightest changes. BUT, if Mr. Ewell wasn't in the book would Jem's arm be broken? I think that if you remove Bob Ewell from the book over Dill, it has a much bigger difference. Mr. Ewell was a main part of the story where Dill was not.
I disagree with what Lauren said. If Dill wasn't in the book, the whole book would be different. Dill may have seemed to be a minor character, but everything that he did affected the people around him. If Dill was not in the book then why would Harper Lee even bother to incorporate Boo? Dill is the one that brings attention to Boo and inspires the children to befriend Boo.
Yeah i agree with Megan that if Dill wasn't in the book then the children wouldn't have befriended him and they would have gone the other way home where their was light and Bob Ewell wouldn't have attacked them because they would have seen him earlier and would have known to run away before he attacked them. Also if they screamed before he attacked them the neighbors would have heard and turned on their lights and ran outside to help before he could have even touched them.
I definitely agree wtih Megan. Harper Lee wouldn't bother including Boo in the story if Dill wasn't present. By being friends with Scout and Jem, he influences them to try to make Boo come out. Jem and Scout become more curious and less afraid. Like Erica said, this results in Jem and Scout taking a different route home at the end of the book. If they didn't take a different route home, then at that moment, Jem wouldn't have broken his arm.
((Im late on this))
Umm regarding Maureens post, the fact that he WAS drunk and WAS angry is why he would still attack the kids.
People do stupid things when they're angry and drunk and it's perfectly reasonable that he would have made the error in judgement that he would not be figured out if he attacked them even under the lights. If he was drunk which you're saying, then it makes him more likely to attack the kids no matter what the circumstances. Drunk and angry is not a good combination. It would cloud his judgement severely.
Kevin even if he was drunk if the kids saw him under the lights they would have scream and ran. Now a drunk man can not run fast he would stumble and fall therefore the kids would have been safe because someone would have heard them and came outside so yeah being drunk would have made it easier for the kids to escape.
i agree with maureen because if they had gotten away they would have told someone and atticus would have made sure that they were safe from bob ewell..the police could have even arrested him for attacking two children...and we are talking about how jem broke his arm not how he could have gotten hurt.. and no one sed that dill broke jems arm its that dill caused jem to break his arm and not die....the fact that jem BROKE HIS ARM was caused because of dill... bob ewell hurt which could have happened regardless of boo radley... but the fact that boo radley grabbed jem and scout away from bob ewell was because they got to know him and they got to know him because of dill. so if we are talking about how he broke his arm its because of dill.
Amanda is correct we are talking about Dill who caused th accident not him physically doing the breaking. The fats are clear. Dill influenced the two children to walk home the way near Boo Radley's house. The kids walk that was and it is dark. The can't see Bob Ewell so the don't start running imidiently. Bob Ewell attacks them... jem breaks his arm.
Without Dill...
the children would have taken the route with lights away from Boo Radley's house and near the naighbors who are very alert. They could of turned around after hearing the faintest sound. With him not drunk that could have scream and ran. Doors would have bolted open before he hurt them and he would not be stupid enough to hurt them in the light sober. if he was drunk he would have stumbed and fell if he tried to run after them.
This concludes that it is Dill's fault.
Maureen, you have the final word. This blog topic is CLOSED. Thank you to everyone who participated.
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